So another lets screw hi sec industry corps blog.

No thanks CCP not interested in this crap. POS's are down. Accounts not plex'd.

Just waiting for the next blog now, I am not expecting much love for hi-sec.

Also with your scaling cost factors, please keep in mind that POS users already have to pay an upkeep price in form of fuel blocks. So Additional costs that have to get calculated in there. So either very favourable scaling costs or reduced fuel block consumption may be a very nice thing! (And don't tell me that saving those 10% of taxes on my POS for installing jobs will easily add up to 400-500 million per month, so those fuel blocks are covered.....and yes we do not plan on downgrading to a small one as another dev post in the features and ideas forum thinks everyone will do)

OK, seems that POS usage is about to dramatically change since current usage will be broken (workforce taxes vs fuel, force to have BP in there for use, no locks, including BPO at the time BPC not done yet). On another hand you seem to force people to use it with its ore compression capabilities since other solutions have been discarded in terms of profit. People doing hisec capital build (building in low but importing minerals from hisec) will consume all their time hauling ore between systems and will have to put them in POS instead of doing locally (I also suppose that the case will exist in nullsec even if there's more facilities to do that).

Moreover, with taxes + workforce costs, I assume you intend to make the people move regularly as the system will change between overcrowed state and empty, creating a sort of market of the systems, ... a market of markets. Do you realize that some people will be pissed of moving their stuff ? Handling the production and its dependencies is already a tedious work, if you intended to simplify it, you only improved the UI and the math, but the rest will increase in tedious things to do.

I'm not very optimistic atm for these update and look forward to a point release when you will see "silent people" come to the forum when they'll discover the changes.

Somebody else already mentioned invention. This is a big problem. The impact of an ME1 bonus on things with ME0 or more appears to be hugely different from the impact of an ME1 bonus on negative ME actions. I mean, point taken that reducing the 5% congestion cost in any way would quickly be meaningless, but giving inventors anywhere a shot at zero ME with no decryptors is way too big of a bonus. Only give the bonus when you're already at ME0, maybe?

As I have said in another dev blog post the changes when applied as a whole make running a small industry corp much more difficult. Locked down BPO's need to be unlocked and moved to POS's (if your mad) or other systems and when you have maybe 400bil in BPO's it become a logistical mess.

We have taken the decision that as all of us have full time jobs we don't really need another . Our final POS will be down when the final batch is done and I think 15 accounts have been un-subbed leaving 3 maybe 5 active accounts between us. What we will do in Eve. if anything, remains to be seen. We are ISK heavy so its not as if we need to actually do anything at the last count we could buy over 100 plex's each before we dispose of any assets. But we see no reason to continue with hi-sec industry. We no longer need the accounts for building stuff they don't have any other useful skills and I think there will be glut or industry character for sale soon so they will be undervalued. Our BPO's will remain locked down in the corp hanger.

Your correct in that the changes will make things more expensive so as we anticipated such a move by CCP (have they ever made changes to make things cheaper?) so last week all market items and contracts have been terminated and we will remarket and factor in the cost increases at a future date.

We spend at least 40bil a month on plex, fuel, materials and sometimes double or triple that. In the scheme of things that a drop in the ocean when compared to large corps and alliance but I have seen at least 5 other POS's gone in the last week or so just from our system and they all belonged to small corps like ours. I have spoken to two of the corps and they don't see a future. Most will not leave Eve they will find something else to do, as we may do, but like us, it wont be hi-sec industry.

Hi Sec Industry. No Thanks. I already work for a living.

Thats a huge dowside for POS owners. Unless someone is producing something requiring a large ammount of materials we will not get anything out of it.

T3's, rigs - both T1 and T2 - all of those use relativlely small ammount of items to produce, so no bonus or non-comparable bonus to (for example) mineral based production like t1 ships

Sandbox Dev meeting:

"Oh Look! They are not doing what we wants them to do! Let's make non-compliance more painful!"

"Yes, yes let's!"


Months later......


" Why do they leave?"

"We HATES them! Tricksy Hobits"

Famous last words. Security through obscurity is never a good idea. Reveal your anti-manipulation methods, please. The global pricing thing has always had an air of randomness about it. Make it transparent so people can compare apples to apples. By not doing so you tacitly acknowledge that what you're doing is not foolproof and you yourselves don't really trust it. It sounds like a massive exploit just waiting to happen.

As with each Dev blog and forum Thread, I have read every post before throwing in my two cents.

Im still pumped over this update.

I'm a little on the fence on the ME changes to research, but I can deal with it.

What is going to happen to POS owners is a real blow to me.

From what I have read the only "reward" you get for the risk of production and science in a POS is a small bonus to job time.

I think I understand the huge mess the current POS code is in, and what that does to restrict options, however if I am understanding the current plans, there is simply no point in using a POS. They will just get packed up or left as dead sticks on a moon.

While we will all adapt, it will do far more to "dumb down Eve" than all the little things the bitter ones keep throwing around. If POS becomes unfeasiable Eve will have lost something at its core.

A POS is more than a place to research blueprints, it's the first thing, and for many people the only thing that a corp can claim as "ours" and defend it.

Unless you carve out SOV somewhere, a POS is it. If Eve loses that, it will have lost something special

Insane that the price of the output is taken as a factor in the cost of producing said output. There is no reason to pay more for an activity unless someone else is willing to pay more for the same workforce supply. What the end product is should have no impact at all. The employers are demand, and the workers are supply...and that is it basically.

What it is now, is more like a regulated profit margin, communist style.

Is it safe to assume that we can expect some update to the POS management system? I find it supremely annoying that the only way I can allow my corpmates to install their own jobs into corporate owned manufacturing and researching facilities is to give them an unprecedented level of control over said structures as well as access to a corporate account, especially since the assembly lines already say that they are publicly available. As we live in W-space, allowing members to build there own equipment and ships without the need to annoy someone with the appropriate roles and trust levels in the corporation would be nice. If I've missed some magical button that already allows this I'd appreciate a redirect as the seemingly days of research and trial and error attempts have yielded no helpful results.

As for the rest of the changes to industry, I love the overall concept. I'll wait and see how they end up affecting life out here on the edge.

perhaps they make more than ammo?

don't see it, please link. not trying to be difficult

Setting aside the fact that it simply easier to produce T3s in a place where we can quite easily attain all of the materials required to build them, what about research? We have no stations to allow for remote researching, which as of the summer release doesn't matter, so we still have no way of simply allowing people to use the labs that we are more than willing to allow them to use.

Would/are you considering making NPC standings related to installation taxes costs?